The Library: Revised and Condensed

Bill Clinton’s 8/17/98 Grand Jury Testimony

Good afternoon, Mr. President.

Bill Clinton: What’s so good about it? You might like sitting in a courtroom all day—but to me, a good afternoon involves three hours in a hotel room, two horny college girls, and one good time for Willie Jr.

… OK. … Mr. President, do you understand that lying to us today is a big no-no?

Yes-yes.

OK-OK. I’m going to ask you some questions about your relationship with Monica Lewinsky.

Well—I’d rather talk about my plan to reform the healthcare system.

[Rolls his eyes] Mr. President, were you physically intimate with Miss Lewinsky?

Well… yes and no.

Would you care to elaborate?

Well… yes and no.

Let me rephrase that. Would you care to elaborate, or would rather spend the next five years in jail?

Look. Miss Lewinsky and I did something. And that “something” was more than nothing. After all, the term “something” implies more than nothing. But of course, “something” could mean anything. I might’ve played ping pong with her. I might’ve painted her toenails. She might’ve sold me a used Toyota. We might’ve studied 13th century Romanian poetry. But the point is, I’m trying to legally bullshit you.

Now, what we actually did is essentially a matter of opinion and interpretation. And the same thing can be said about anything that anybody does. For instance, some people think Bush benefited the country, while others think he turned it into a shithole. You cannot state for a fact that someone did something. And of course, words can be interpreted many ways. For instance, I’ve screwed women, I’ve screwed screws, I’ve screwed pieces of shit who had it coming to them, and I’ve screwed myself.

Now, I did in fact engage in some inappropriate contact with Miss Lewinsky. But when I denied having “sexual relations” with her, I was telling what I believed to be the truth, using my own interpretation of my various interactions with her, as well as my definition of the term “sexual relations.”

Would you please describe the inappropriate contact?

I’d prefer not to reveal such explicit details to the public.

Well—there are a few million perverts out there who’d prefer that you did —and you’re legally obligated to make them happy.

OK—fine. The inappropriate contact included but may or may not have been limited to what some people refer to as a “blowjob.” But the acts do not fit my definition of “sexual relations.”

And what is your definition of “sexual relations.”

Well, by my count, the expression “have sexual relations” has about three hundred and twenty five different meanings—most of which have absolutely nothing to do with sex or relations. For instance, it can mean “play pinochle,” “purchase binoculars,” or “drive a Hyundai.” And of those meanings that have to do with sex, most of them refer specifically to vaginal sex, and not any of the few hundred other acts that certain people sometimes categorize as sex.

But you had to realize that some people do in fact consider oral sex to be covered by the term “sexual relations.”

Yes. But my statement was covering what I considered to be the general term “sexual relations” in the context it was used. I mean, some people use the word “bad” to mean “good”—as in, “that girl’s one bad mamajama.” But generally speaking, I take and use the term “bad” to mean “bad,” as in “Bush was a bad president.” And likewise, when I was asked whether or not I had sexual relations with Miss Lewinsky, I took it to mean “sexual relations” in the “vaginal sex” or “Hyundai driving” sense, and not the “oral sex” or “cigar penetration” sense. Now, if Carl Carlton had been the one asking me the questions, I would have answered much differently.

But Miss Lewinsky once wrote you a card that said, and I quote, “I can’t wait ‘til the next time we have sexual relations.”

… Look. I was asked whether or not I had sexual relations with Miss Lewinsky. Now, there are thousands of Miss Lewinskys in the world, and I’ve only had sexual relations with a few of them—a mere 0.1 percent of the Miss Lewinsky population. So even if I had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky, I was still technically telling the truth during my January 17th, 1998 deposition. Why? Because generally speaking, I did not have sexual relations with Miss Lewinsky. Let me put it this way. If I helped one man in Africa, and you simply asked me whether or not I helped Africa, I would say, “No—I did not help Africa.” Why? Because I only helped one man in Africa, and not the entire continent. Likewise, I only had sex with some Miss Lewisnkys, and not Miss Lewinsky in general.

I figured you might say that. And that’s why I tracked down 4534 Miss Lewinsks from around the world, and got 3,826 of them to sign a sworn affidavit stating that you had sex with them.

… Look. Sex in general is a very vague word and concept, and what some people term “sex” is an act that is not necessarily sexual in nature. After all, in many regions of the world, putting your erect penis into someone’s vagina is a completely nonsexual greeting between friends and acquaintances. Now, some of the Miss Lewisnkys I supposedly had “sex” with might have interpreted the act as actual sex—but from my perspective, we were engaging in a nonsexual act that does not fall under the category of “sexual relations.”

… OK. If inserting your penis into another human being can in fact be a casual nonsexual greeting, how about I take you to my apartment and put my penis up your ass? Would you have any objections to that?

Hey—I said “penis into a vagina.” I never mentioned anything about an ass. Now, if you put a vagina in front of me, I’d be more than happy to greet it.

Look, asshole. I’m not going to debate whether putting a penis into a vagina is sex. The fact is that you had vaginal intercourse with most of the world’s Miss Lewinskys, and then stated, under oath, that you did not have sexual relations with Miss Lewisnky.

… I think the problem here is that your analysis is way too one-sided. You’re focusing entirely on all the times I’ve had with Miss Lewinsky. But what about all the times I haven’t had sex with Miss Lewinsky? Over the course of my life, I haven’t had sex with Miss Lewinsky an infinite number of times, and I’ve had sex with Miss Lewinsky a finite number of times. So in a sense, I spent virtually all of my life not having sex with Miss Lewinsky.

No one asked you whether you spent your life having sex with Miss Lewinsky. We simply want to know whether you’ve ever had sex with her. And I think it’s perfectly clear that the answer is “yes”.

Well, if you look at everything from a hyperfactual standpoint, it might appear as if I had sexual relations with Miss Lewinsky. But what about the non-facts? There are a finite number of facts, but an infinite number of non-facts. If you want to understand reality as a whole, you can’t simply stick to the facts. And when I said I did not have sexual relations with Miss Lewinsky, I meant from the perspective of reality as a whole, and not just the facts.

Well, suppose, for some strange reason, that this court wants to deal in just facts. Now then— I’m going to make this really simple. According to the facts, have you inserted your penis into over 3000 Miss Lewinskys? Yes or no?

Well—that depends on what you mean by the word “the.”

Um… did I hear you correctly? Are you asking me what I meant by the word “the”?

Well—that depends.

On what?

On what you mean by the word “hear.” If you mean “hear” as in, “Do you hear me knocking?,” then open the door. But if you mean “here” as in, “Here a cow, there a cow, everywhere a cow, cow,” then Old McDonald had a farm. And I just want to let Old McDonald know that as long as I’m in office, we’ll make sure that he’ll continue to have a farm, as well as Medicare and Social Security payments.

Once again, Mr. President. According to the facts, have you inserted your penis into over 3000 Miss Lewinskys? Yes or no?

The Capital of Pakistan is Islamabad.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?!

Are you saying the Capital of Pakistan isn’t Islamabad?

I’m saying I don’t give a shit about the Capital of Islamabad.

Oh. So you don’t give a shit about countries other than your own?

… A liar says what?

I know. That’s why you said it.

Said what?

Exactly.

A liar says something or nothing.

A liar says “a liar says something or nothing.”

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a video store with no adult section lacks customers / A __ d—uh, bad example / a uh… forget that last example

Make yourself a man, and __ assholes will disappear / transform

From the standpoint of x divided by inf

And let’s also consider

for

Let’s focus on some of the things that I didn’t do with Ms. Lewinsky.

I didn’t have sex with the other things I’ve done over __. I’ve

It all dpends on how you look at things.

From the perspective

I think we’re focusing a bit too much on the facts, and nont enough on the non-facts.

OK. I might’ve inserted my penis into the vaginas of a few hundred Miss Lewinskys. But that doesn’t mean I had sexual relations with them. At least, not according to my interpretation of

To suggest that I have to conform all of my statements to everyone else’s interpretation of reality in order to be telling the truth

Well, those were just code terms we used with each other, in order to keep our relationship a secret.

You used the code terms “sexual relations” and “vaginal intercourse” in order to hide the fact that you were having oral sex?

Yes.

Now, if the trial took place in the 80s, and Carl Carlotn

But when I hear a rational, sane person say something like, “Bush was a bad president,” I take it to mean “bad” in the conventional sense, and not the mamajama sense. And likewise, when I was asked whether or not I had sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, I took it to mean “sexual relations” in the

Now, if the trial took place in the 80s, and Carl Carlotn

as in “bad,” and not “bad” as in “bad

__, I take and use the term “bad” to mean “bad,” as in “Bush was a bad president.”

Yes—I did realize that having

But in the context of my January 17th, 1998 depostion, I

And even if __,

But at one poit you stated that you did not have sexual relation with Monica Lewinsky.

Now, if Carl Carlton had been the one asking me the questions, I would have answered much differently. Let me put it this way: When your wife asks you ____. But when

But when my ___

Don’t get cute with me, smartass.

So when you stated that you did not have sexual relations with Miss Lewinsky, you meant that you did not drive a Hyundai or have vaginal sex with her.

peds on the meaning of the word

How many times were you alone with Ms. Lewinsky?

Let me begin with the correct answer. I don't know for sure. But if you would like me to give an educated guess, I will do that, but I do not know for sure. And I will tell you what I think, based on what I remember. But I can't be held to a specific time, because I don't have records of all of it.

How many times do you think?

Based on our records -- let' s start with the records, where we have the best records and the closest in time. Based on our records, between February and December, it appears to me that at least I could have seen her approximately nine times. Although I do not believe I saw her quite that many times, at least it could have happened.

nd you also gave her Christmas gifts, is that not correct, Mr. President?

And you actually requested this meeting, is that not correct?

Did you also give her a marble bear's head carving from Vancouver, Canada?

I did do that. I remember that.

And you also gave her a Rockettes blanket; that is, the famous Rockettes from New York?

Have you ever referred to oral sex as sex, sexual relations, or

Well—yes and no.

We,ll, I have –but I was high

How do you know I even exist? How do you know the universe exists?

Do you normally targetr woman on the plumper side

Q Mr. President, the question - -

A But some of them were quite affectionate

That statement is made by your attorney in front of Judge Susan Webber Wright, correct?

A That's correct.

Q That statement is a completely false statement. Whether or not Mr. Bennett knew of your relationship with Ms. Lewinsky, the statement that there was "no sex of any kind in any manner, shape or form, with President Clinton," was an utterly false statement. Is that correct?

A It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. If the –if he – if "is" means is and never has been, that is not--- that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement.

But, as I have testified, and I'd like to testify again, this is -- it is somewhat unusual for a client to be asked about his lawyer's statements, instead of the other way around. I was not paying a great deal of attention to this exchange. I was focusing on my own testimony.

Q You are the President of the United States and your attorney tells a United States District Court Judge that there is no sex of any kind, in any way, shape or form, whatsoever. And you feel no obligation to do anything about that at that deposition, Mr. President?

A I have told you, Mr. Wisenberg, I will tell you for a third time. I am not even sure that when Mr. Bennett made that statement that I was concentrating on the exact words he used.

Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true.

Q Was Mr. Bennett aware of this tense-based distinction you are making now -

A I don't -

Q I just want to make sure I understand, Mr. President. Do you mean today that because you were not I engaging in sexual activity with Ms. Lewinsky during the deposition that the statement of Mr. Bennett might be literally true?

A No, sir. I mean that at the time of the deposition, it had been -- that was well beyond any point of improper contact between me and Ms. Lewinsky. So that anyone generally speaking in the present tense, saying there is not an improper relationship, would be telling the truth if that person said there was not, in the present tense; the present tense encompassing many months. That's what I meant by that.

Not that I was -- I wasn't trying to give you a cute answer, that I was obviously not involved in anything improper during a deposition. I was trying to tell you that generally speaking in the present tense, if someone said that, that would be true. But I don't know what Mr. Bennett had in his mind. I don't know. I didn't pay any attention to this colloquy that went on. I was waiting for my instructions as a witness to go forward. I was worried about my own testimony.

Q I want to go over some questions again. I don't think you are going to answer them, sir. And so I don't need a lengthy response, just a yes or a no. And I understand the basis upon which you are not answering them, but I need to ask them for the record.

If Monica Lewinsky says that while you were in the Oval Office area you touched her breasts, would she be lying?

A Let me say something about all this.

Q All I really need for you, Mr. President -

A I know.

Q -- is to say -

A But you -

Q -- I won't answer under the previous grounds, or to answer the question, you see, because we only have four hours, and your answers -

A I know.

Q -- have been extremely lengthy.

Q If she says that you kissed her breasts, would she be lying7

A I'm going to revert to my former statement.

Q Okay. If Monica Lewinsky says that while you were in the Oval Office area you touched her genitalia, would she be lying? And that calls for a yes, no, or reverting to your former statement.

A I will revert to my statement on that.

A I wouldn't call it a sexual advance. She was always very friendly. But I never took it seriously.




Could you please state your full name for the record, sir?

BC: That depends.

On what?

BC: On what you mean by the words “could,” “you,” “please,” “state,” “your,” “full,” “name,” “for,” “the,” “record,” and “sir.” I mean, words like that could mean just about anything.

Just answer the question to the best of your abilities. Now, what’s your name?

Look. I’ve dedicated my entire life to serving the public.

Mr. President. I’m begging you. For the love of God. Just answer the question! What is your full name!?

BC: Look—it’s not about questions or answers, or first names or last names. It’s about people and solutions. You know, when I

Let me try something else. … Is your full name William Jefferson Clinton?

BC: Well… that depends on who you ask.

I’m asking you.

BC: … I think you’re making too much

BC: Come on. You know my nameWilliam Milhous Jefferson Clinton.

And according to my interpretation and m

, even though I did have oral sex with 0.1% a small percentage of

when I denied having ex with Ms. Lewisnky.

Others think he screwed it. And words themselves can be interpreted many ways.

Take the word “screw,” for example.

I mean, when Jack and Jill go up a hill, some will say they went up a hill, others will say Jack led Jill up a hill, others will say Jack forced Jill up a hill, others will say they did ten minutes of cardio, others will say they some will say they

spent a pleasant afternoon

Some people think that Bush benefited the country.

Others think he screwed it. And words themselves can be interpreted many ways. Take the word “screw,” for example.

four hundred and fifty three different meaning. Very few of those meanings have to do wi—

I mean, when Jack and Jill go up a hill, some will say they went up a hill, others will say they

And of course, the act that some people refer to as “oral sex”

did not constitute sexual relations as I understood that term to be defined

But they did involve inappropriate intimate contact.

, for all we know. The point is,

. I might’ve

But that something we did was not something

That, I’m also willing to admit.

The term “sexual” is defined the the

BC: Look. Ms. Lewinsky and I did something. That, I’m willing to admit. And that “something” was more than nothing. That, I’m also willing to admit.

A

If you said Jane and Harry have a sexual relationship, and you're not talking about people being drawn into a lawsuit and being given definitions, and then a great effort to trick them in some way, but you are just talking about people in ordinary conversations, I'll bet the grand jurors, if they were talking about two people they know, and said they have a sexual relationship, they meant they were sleeping together; they meant they were having intercourse together.

So, I'm not at all sure that this affidavit is not true and was not true in Ms. Lewinsky's mind at the time she swore it out.

A No, not necessarily intercourse only. But it would include intercourse. I believe,

Q What else would sexual relationship include besides intercourse?

I did do that. I had that, I had had that in my possession for a couple of years but had never used it, and she was going to New York. So, I thought it would be a nice thing to give her.

You gave her a box of cherry chocolates, is that right?

How about a pin of the New York skyline? Did you give -

What about a pair of joke sunglasses?

You had given Ms. Lewinsky gifts on other occasions though, is that right, Mr. President?

A Yes, I had.

Well, that's probably true. It was sort of like a going-away present and a Christmas present as well. And she had given me a particularly nice book for Christmas, an antique book on Presidents. She knew that I collected old books and it was a very nice thing. And I just thought I ought to get up a few things and give them to her before she left.

I have always given a lot of people gifts. I have always been given gifts. I do not think there is anything improper about a man giving a woman a gift, or a woman giving I a man a gift, that necessarily connotes an improper relationship. So, it didn't bother me.

Now, she, she sent cards sometimes that were just funny, even a little bit off-color, but they were funny. She liked to send me cards, and I got a lot of those cards; several, anyway, I don't know a lot. I got a few.

Q My question was, did she or did she not profess her love to you in those cards and letters that she sent to you after the relationship ended?

A Most of them were signed, "Love", you know, "Love, Monica." I don't know that I would consider -- I don't believe that in most of these cards and letters she professed her love, but she might well have. I -- but, you know, love can mean different things, too, Mr. Bittman. I have -- there are a lot of women with whom I have never had any inappropriate conduct who are friends of mine, who will say from time to time, I love you. And I know that they don't mean anything wrong by that.

Q Specifically, Mr. President, do you remember a card she sent you after she saw the movie 'Titanic,' in which she said that she reminisced or dreamed about the romantic feelings that occurred in the movie, and how that reminded her of you two? Do you remember that?

Q When you testified in the Paula Jones case, this was only two and a half weeks after you had given her these six gifts, you were asked, at page 75 in

A I do not remember exactly what the nature of the conversation was. I do remember that I told him that there was no sexual relationship between me and Monica Lewinsky, which was true. And that -- then all I remember for the rest is that he said he had referred her to a lawyer, and I believe it was Mr. Carter, and I don't believe I've ever met Mr. Carter. I don't think I know him.

A All I can tell you, sir, is I, I certainly don't remember him saying that. Now, he could have said that because, as you know, a great many things happened in the ensuing two or three days. And I could have just forgotten it. But I don't remember him ever saying that.

A Well, he said she was upset about it. I don't remember -- I don't remember any, at any time when he said this, this other thing you just quoted me. I'm sorry. I just don't remember that.

Q That is something that one would be likely to remember, don't you think, Mr. President?

I -- people don't always hear the same questions in the same way. They don't always answer them in the same way.

It's also -- if I could say one thing about my memory. I have been blessed and advantaged in my life with a good memory. Now, I have been shocked, and so have members of my family and friends of mine, at how many things that I have forgotten in the last six years, I think because of the pressure and the pace and the volume of events in the President's life, compounded by the pressure of your four year inquiry, and all the other things that have happened, I'm amazed there are lots of times when I literally can't remember last week.

And now that -- as I said, you have made this the most important issue in America. I mean, you have made it the most important issue in America from your point of view. At the time this was occurring, even though I was concerned about it, and I hoped she didn't have to testify, and I hoped this wouldn't come out, I felt -- I will say again -- that she could honestly fill out an affidavit that, under reasonable circumstances, would relieve her of the burden of testifying.

A I gave the best answer I could, based on the best memory I had at the time they asked me the question. That's the only answer I can give you, sir.

Q And before -

A And I think I may have been confused in my memory, because I've also talked to him on the phone about what he said about whether he talked to her or met with her. That's all I can tell you.

A I knew that at some point. I don't know whether I found out that, that day. I knew that day, I knew that somehow she knew that among, that, that Eleanor Mondale was in to see us that day. I knew that. I don't know that I knew how she knew that on that day. I don't remember that.

Q You have no knowledge of the fact that Secret Service officers were told later in the day something to the effect of, this never happened, this event never happened? You have no knowledge of that?

A I'm not sure anybody ever told that to me. I mean, I thought you were asking -- let me just say, my interpretation of this, of your previous question was different than what you're asking now.

Mr. President, the next series of questions are from the grand jurors. And let me tell you that the grand jurors want you to be more specific about the inappropriate conduct.

The first question was, one of the grand jurors has said that you referred to what you did with Ms. Lewinsky as inappropriate contact; what do you mean by that?

A I mean just what I said. But I would like to ask the grand jury, because I think I have been quite specific and I think I've been willing to answer some specific questions that I haven't been asked yet, but I do not want to discuss something that is intensely painful to me. This has been tough enough already on me and on my family, although I take responsibility for it. I have no one to blame but myself.

What I meant was, and what they can infer that I meant was, that I did things that were -- when I was alone with her, that were inappropriate and wrong. But that they did not include any activity that was within the definition of sexual relations that I was given by Judge Wright in the deposition. I said that I did not do those things that were in that, within that definition, and I testified truthfully to that. And that's all I can say about it.

Q If a person touched another person, if you touched another person on the breast, would that be, in your view, and was it within your view, when you took the deposition, within the definition of sexual relations?

A If the person being deposed -

Q Yes.

A -- in this case, me, directly touched the breast of another person, with the purpose to arouse or gratify, under that definition that would be included.

Q Only directly, sir, or would it be directly or through clothing?

A Well, I would -- I think the common sense definition would be directly. That's how I would infer what it means.

Q If the person being deposed kissed the breast of another person, would that be in the definition of sexual relations as you understood it when you were under oath in the Jones case?

A Yes, that would constitute contact. I think that would. If it were direct contact, I believe it would. I -- maybe I should read it again, just to make sure.

Because this basically says if there was any direct contact with an intent to arouse or gratify, if that was the intent of the contact, then that would fall within the definition. That's correct.

Q So, touching, in your view then and now -- the person being deposed touching or kissing the breast of another person would fall within the definition?

A That's correct, sir.

Q And you testified that you didn't have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky in the Jones deposition, under that definition, correct?

A That's correct, sir.

Q If the person being deposed touched the genitalia of another person, would that be -- and with the intent to arouse the sexual desire, arouse or gratify, as defined in definition (1), would that be, under your understanding then and now -

A Yes. sir.

Q -- sexual relations7

A Yes, sir.

Q Yes, it would?

A Yes, it would. If you had a direct contact with any of these places in the body, if you had direct contact with intent to arouse or gratify, that would fall within the definition.

Q So, you didn't do any of those three things -

A You -

Q -- with Monica Lewinsky7

A You are free to infer that my testimony is that I did not have sexual relations, as I understood this term to be defined.

Q Including touching her breast, kissing her breast, or touching her genitalia?

A That's correct.

Q Would you agree with me that the insertion of an object into the genitalia of another person with the desire to gratify sexually would fit within the definition used in the Jones case as sexual relations?

A There's nothing here about that, is there? I don't know that I ever thought about that one way or the other.

Q The question is, under the definition as you understood it then, under the definition as you understand it now -- pardon me just a minute.

Q As you understood the definition then, and as you understood it now, would it include sticking an object into the genitalia of another person in order to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person? Would it constitute, in other words, contact with the genitalia?

A I don't know the answer to that. I suppose you could argue that since section 2, paragraph (2) was eliminated, and paragraph (2) actually dealt with the object issue, that perhaps whoever wrote this didn't intend for paragraph (1) to cover an object, and basically meant direct contact.

So, if I were asked -- I've not been asked this question before. But I guess that's the way I would read it.

Q If it -- that it would not be covered? That activity would not be covered?

A That's right. If the activity you just mentioned would be covered in number (2), and number (2) were stricken, I think you can infer logically that paragraph (l) was not intended to cover it. But, as I said, I've not been asked this before. I'm just doing the best I can.

A But, Mr. Wisenberg, I have said all along that I would say what I thought it meant, and you can infer that I didn't. This is an unusual question, but it's a slippery slope. We can -- I have tried to deal with some very delicate areas here, and, and in one case I've given you a very forthright answer about what I thought was not within here.

Q As I understand your testimony, Mr. President, touching somebody's breast with the intent to arouse, with the intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person is covered; kissing the breast is covered; touching the genitalia is covered; correct?

MR. KENDALL: In fairness, the witness said directly in each one of those cases.

BY MR. WISENBERG:

Q Directly, is covered, correct?

A I believe it is, yes, sir.

Q Ora1 sex, in your view, is not covered, correct?

A If performed on the deponent.

Q Is not covered, correct?

A That's my reading of this number (1).

Q And you are declining to answer the hypothetical about insertion of an object.

Q Mr. President, it's not our intent to embarrass you. But since we have to look, among other things, at obstruction of justice, questions of obstruction of justice and perjury, the answer to some of these delicate and unfortunate questions are absolutely required. And that is the purpose that we have to ask them for.

Q The question is, if you told John Podesta two days after the story broke something to this effect, that you didn't have any kind of sex in any way, shape or form, including oral sex with Ms. Lewinsky, were you telling him the truth?

Q Did you deny oral sex in any way, shape or form, to John Podesta?

A I told you, sir, before, and I will say again, in the aftermath of this story breaking, and what was told about it, the next two days, next three days are just a blur to me. I don't remember to whom I talked, when I talked to them, or what I said.

A I know that. I'll give you four hours and 30 seconds, if you'll let me say something general about this. I will answer to your satisfaction that I won't -- based on my statement, I will not answer. I would like 30 seconds at the end to make a atatement, and you can have 30 seconds more on your time, if you'll let me say this to the grand jury and to you. And I don't think it's disrespectful at all. I've had a lot of time to think about this.

But, go ahead and ask your questions.

Q The question is, if Monica Lewinsky says that while you were in the Oval Office area you touched her breasts, would she be lying?

A That is not my recollection. My recollection is that I did not have sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky and I'm staying on my former statement about that.

Q If she said -

A My, my statement is that I did not have sexual relations as defined by that.

Q If Monica Lewinsky says that you used a cigar as a sexual aid with her in the Oval Office area, would she be lying? Yes, no, or won't answer?

A I will revert to my former statement.

Q If Monica Lewinsky says that you had phone sex with her, would she be lying?

A Well, that is, at least in general terms, I think, is covered by my statement. I addressed that in my statement, and that, I don't believe, is -

Q Let me define phone sex for purposes of my question. Phone sex occurs when a party to a phone conversation masturbates while the other party is talking in a sexually explicit manner. And the question is, if Monica Lewinsky says that you had phone sex with her, would she be lying?

A I think that is covered by my statement.

A Well, again, I don't recall, and I don't recall whether I might have done something like that, for example, if somebody says, what if the reporters ask me this, that or l the other thing. I can tell you this: In the context of whether she could be a witness, I have a recollection that she asked me, well, what do I do if I get called as a witness, and I said, you have to get a lawyer. And that's all I said. And I never asked her to lie.

This is -- you're dealing with, in some ways, the most mysterious area of human life. I'm doing the best I can to give you honest answers.

Q When you received the book, this gift from Monica, the Presidents of the United States, this book that you liked and you talked with Monica about, did it come with a note? Do you remember the note that it came with, Mr. President?

A No, sir, I don't.

Q Do you remember that in the note she wrote that, she expressed how much she missed you and how much she cared for you, and you and she later talked about this in this telephone conversation, and you said -- and she apologized for putting such emotional, romantic things in this note, and you said, yeah, you shouldn't have written some of those things, you shouldn't put those things down on paper? Did you ever say anything like that to Ms. Lewinsky?

A Oh, I believe I did say something like that to Ms Lewinsky. I don't remember doing something as late as you suggest. I'm not saying I didn't. I have no recollection of l that.

**

Q Do you agree with me that the statement, "I was never alone with her", is incorrect? You were alone with Monica Lewinsky, weren't you?

A Well, again, it depends on how you define alone. Yea, we were alone from time to time, even during 1997, even when there wee absolutely no improper contact occurring. Yes, that ia accurate.

But there were also a lot of times when, even though no one could see us, the doors were open to the halls, l on both ends of the halls, people could hear. The Navy stewards could come in and out at will, if they were around. Other things could be happening. So, there were a lot of times when we were alone, but I never really thought we were.

Q All right. Do you recall, having received her telephone number, calling her that night?

A No, sir, I don't.

Q Do you recall inviting her to meet with you at your hotel that night?

A No, sir, I do not.

Q Do you recall where you stayed in Richmond, Virginia during the debates you've told us about?

A Well, I stayed at some hotel there, I believe.

Q Actually, did you stay at the Williamsburg Inn, not in Richmond?

Q But what is your best recollection of that conversation, those conversations7

A I don't remember talking to her. But I -- it seems to me that at some point -- this is why I believe I had met her before, too. But at some point I had some actual person-to-person conversation with her about my sore throat, or what she thought would be good for it, or something like that. I have some vague memory of that. That's it.

Q Is this the chicken soup conversation, Mr. President?

Q Mr. President, in fact, on that date you did make sexual advances on Kathleen Willey, is that not correct?

A That's false.

Q You did grab her breast, as she said?

A I did not.

Q You did place your hand on her groin area, as she said?

A No, I didn't.

Q And you placed her hand on your genitals, did you not?

Q Did she make a sexual advance on you, Mr. President7

A On that day, no, she did not. She was troubled.

Q On some other day?